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Medical Spa Business Forum > Syneron laser effectiveness

I'm looking at buying a Syneron laser. Has anyone used Syneron for hair removal? What type of results have you had? How does it compare to other lasers for hair removal?

08.9 | Unregistered Commenterplastics

This question has been asked before on this web site. If you search the topics and archives you will see some responses about Syneron-- both pro and con. One thing you will notice is an interesting "split opinion" about almost all the technologies. Also be careful because some laser salesmen are sneaking in and posing as users.

Type Syneron in the search box at the top right of the site to find everything on Syneron.

Pros: diode laser effective on lighter skin and darker hair, BiPolar radiofrequency is the unique feature of this laser supposedly driving down the heat/energy. Automatic pulse allows you to complete treatments quicker.
Cons: Large heavy handpeice, bulkiness impedes visibility especially when treating areas like bikini. Small spot size-longer treatments. Need to use messy gel and there is a risk of arching if your two rails are not in contact with skin. Not ideal for type 4 skin or tanned skin due to melanin absorption. My recommendation :Candela Gentle yag or Gentlelase, demo the lasers and you'll easily make a decision.

08.21 | Unregistered Commenterlzrnurse

Syneron Laser Hair Removal - hands down, the BEST. Fastest, safest, most effective device on the market. Patients love the effectiveness.

08.22 | Unregistered CommenterJH

"Not ideal for type 4 skin or tanned skin due to melanin absorption. My recommendation :Candela Gentle yag or Gentlelase, demo the lasers and you'll easily make a decision"

This post is 100% inaccurate. Syneron is by far the most effective and safe technology available when treating dark skin types. Why? Becuase it's the ONLY technology that uses RF which is a color blind energy source, it doesnt matter if it's a dark skin type or not.

What makes this comment from the above user even more ridiculous and obviously biased is the fact that the poster recomends a Gentlelase, which uses a technology much more likely to burn a darker skin type. Basic science 755 vs. 810 with RF.

12.15 | Unregistered CommenterTexasMD

TexasMD and JH,

I want to see the studies that back up your statements:

"Syneron is by far the most effective and safe technology available when treating dark skin types."

"Syneron Laser Hair Removal - hands down, the BEST. Fastest, safest, most effective device on the market. Patients love the effectiveness."

By the way, the studies can not be done by Syneron. I have yet to see a study supporting Syneron's position done by outside sources except the derms they have paid for the research. So make making such broad statements is over reaching some.

I have had Syneron in my clinic a couple of times and none of my staff or I feel that your statement is correct. I think it is OK to like the system you use but making statements as absolute as yours is a little over the top. I think you will find many physicians on this site do not agree with you.

I can also think of at least 2 other systems that are at least as fast for hair removal and my feeling is better at LHR are the Cutera 1064 (also safe for darker skin) and the Sciton BBL. Absolute statements like yours tend to come from sales reps.

12.16 | Unregistered CommenterLH

I agree with LH. I do not think Syneron, or any IPL for that matter, is able to do better hair removal than any laser in darker skin type (type V or darker).

02.26 | Unregistered CommenterCanMD

Stats and studies can be bought. If lecture Doctors opinion differ from power point slides, your off the payroll. I know I used to lecture for Solvay. Ive used multiple lasers for hair removal.
Hands down, G-yag and Gentlelase have reproducible high efficacy and lowest adverse reactions when used properly.

I don't have any prepaid studies, this is just simple observation.

LH
I think your right, I smell a rat...oops i mean a rep

02.26 | Unregistered CommenterFlorida PA

When discussing lasers in general and LHR in particular, if I may put my 5-cent worth of comment here, it is imperative that we remove ourselves from getting stuck with brand names (syneron, alma, lumenis, palomar, candela, cutera, cynosure) but rather making sure we agree on WHICH laser platforms are BEST for the appropriate skin types AND the SPECIFICATIONS (i.e. pulse duration, fluency, spot size and speed) needed of the machines REGARDLESS of the brands to deliver the most effective and safest outcomes to ALL patients. When each one of us masters this we can all start this discussion in a more professionally science-based perspectives rather than hyperboles. More importantly, we can hold ALL those manipulative sales reps LIABLE and once-and-for-all put an end to their dog and pony shows SOONER than later.

02.27 | Unregistered Commenterpmdoc

Amen to that!

02.27 | Unregistered CommenterLH

Another fact told to me in the past was: 800's nm diode is the MOST commonly available laser by-products from the US military which can be sold very cheaply to private entities. This is also the reason why those late bloomers or quick-to-get-rich companies (who did not want to invest in the REAL but more expensive platforms) have tried very hard to push this diode as a "perfect FIT-ALL platform" between 755 and 1064 range. Hogwash at best!!!We do a disservice not only to ourselves but other colleagues new to this field and also to our patients when we fail to speak of medicine without factual basis

02.27 | Unregistered Commenterpmdoc

My partner and I have had a very bad experience with Syneron -- the rep sold us a "sweetheart deal" at year end 2007, reassuring us if we changed our minds in the next few weeks that they would take back the equipment if unopened, no questions asked, and refund our deposit fully. Guess what -- we have now had to hire a lawyer and they will not return any of our calls. BUYERS BEWARE! Do not believe anything their reps tell you is the lesson I have learned the hard way.

I would like to know what is so great about the 755nm if it only treats light skin types. Also, why would these companies use a diode from the US military when most of the lasers in this industry aer made in Israel and they are ALL fairly inexpensive. (Especially a YAG) I hear a lot of criticism about "every" company out there, the worst part is even when we have made a lot of money with the equipment. Also, who has the best customer service out there that you have heard of?

04.28 | Unregistered Commenterlrnp

We have IPL, YAG, and Alexandrite (755) in our facility. Even though the Alex must be used with caution in the darker skin types, it can be very effective and safe. Studies indicate more comfort and efficacy with the diode or alex, but the problem with the diode is that no one has a platform that has the large spot size. So, yes we love the YAG, but in an under the clothes, non sun exposed area, the alex is our choice for even the darker skin types.

08.17 | Unregistered CommenterLaserDocMD

6 months ago we did an extensive search for the best laser to do LHR. We had the Cutera 1064 and the Cutera ProWave IPL 770 nm. Our results were not good enough with these devices. Patients were not happy, we were not happy. Had to do too many treatments. Total % reduction was not good enough. Too many complications as you turned up the j or turned down the ms to get better results.

We ended up bringing in Syneron, Aesthera, Lumenis and Cynosure. We demoed Lumenis Diode, Cynosure Alexandrite, Syneron and Aesthera. We were just looking for a laser to compliment our 1064. We liked our 1064 for dark, thick hair. We eliminated the Syneron and Aesthera because they did not have the studies to show they were really effective and we didn't want to take a chance on new technology (we NEEDED RESULTS). By far, the Diode and the Alex laser were the tried and true gold standards. We were not interested in IPLs because many sources said that IPLs were not as good as lasers (we could not take a chance of getting another device that did not work well enough).

We chose the Lumenis Diode and we have been very happy. We are getting great results on patients we were not getting results on before. It has a small spot size (12 mm), but we are getting great results. We use this Diode on all our patients except our african american patients where we still use the Cutera 1064 (this works very well on dark, thick hair). We are even getting very good results of the dark, thin hairs on Indian patients with the diode. We chose the diode over the Alex because we wanted to be able to use it in all skin types (it has a auto, 30 ms, 100ms and 400 ms pulse duration). The diode is also smaller and easier to move around. It does not sound like a locomotive when you use it and you do not need any cryogen spray. Very convenient and easy to use.

We have recently purchased the Sciton BBLs and we are looking forward to trying Sciton's IPL for Hair Removal. We hear that it works very well. It has a huge spot size which will make doing backs and legs much quicker.

How do you tell that a laser rep is lying? His/Her lips are moving.

You must do at least 4 demos. You must interview at least 4 reps and tell all of them what the others are saying, so they can respond. The truth comes out as they are do "point and counter-point". Hair removal is not as simple as people think. You need to consider wavelength, pulse duration, strength, depth of penetration, etc etc etc. You will consider all as reps respond to each other and bring these things up.

There is some good reference material on www.geocities.com/foxydog1064. Thermal Relaxation Time for Hairs is there, skin thickness and hair depth is there, and the malanin absorption curve is there.

Last comment. The only way to effectively counter the misleading reps and laser companies is to participate actively on blogs like www.MedicalSpaMD.com and to participate in "Clinical Exchange". Search for Clinical Exchange on this site and add your comments. Consider being a "reporter" for this site when you go to a conference. We need more opionions so we can get to the truth.

08.17 | Unregistered CommenterJEE

Hi JEE,

Can you guide me as to what parameters you use with the Lightsheer on Indian skin patients for thick and fine hairs ? Also, how do you space your sittings and manange any kinds of burns.. Kindly mention them here or you could mail me with my id at gmail.com. Please also give me feedback on the Scition hair removal. Thanks

08.17 | Unregistered Commenteravk209

JEE, Did you try the Comet by Syneron?

08.24 | Unregistered CommenterKLH

There is a lot of incorrect information in the above posts.

A couple of responses above one doctor stated he did "extensive research" and decided to go with Lumenis and not Syneron becuase Syneron was new technology that was unproven. Both Lumenis and Syneron use the identical 810 diode purchased from Coherant. The only difference is Syneron also has RF energy. I've used both systems and both can give you great results, the Syneron is a bit faster than my LIghtsheer XT and it works better on darker skin types. On the other hand clients like to see the hair come out of the folicle with my Lightsheer.

Also to resond to JH above. JH, you asked for clinical studies showing that an 810 from Syneron is better on darker skin types than the 755 Alexandrite from Candela that you were in love with. You asking for studies shows me you are overlooking the basic laser absorbtion chart that can be supplied to you by ANY laser company or high school physics teacher. In the recent Aesthetics Buyers Guide you will see a story on treating ethnic skin, the additional use of RF, which is color blind gives Syneron an added benefit for this. Now, I've also used a YAG from Cynosure for treating the darker skin types, I think this works great and I would recommend Cynosure over Cutera due to the financial situation Candela is experiencing as a company.

11.24 | Unregistered CommenterTexas MD

KLH,
The coment by Syneron is thier laser only power plant with the 810 + RF laser hair removal handpeice. The same handpeice is used on their other systems. We owned the Aurora, which was IPL hair removal handpiece. We like the upgrade to the 810 diode laser handpeice becuase it was faster than the IPL and it was more like the lumnenis laser we first used. Hope this helps.

I'm actually going to do laser hair removal under my arms and on my bikini line. I have dark blond hair and light skin but dark brown hair in these areas. The medspa I'm considering uses the Syneron Diode laser. Can anyone tell me if this is appropriate/best for my skin/hair/location of removal? I'm at a loss.

01.13 | Unregistered CommenterLHK

HI All,
I am buying a used 2007 Syneron elaser (hair removal) which already has 600000 pulses? Is this number too much for this machine. How far in terms of number of puls, this machine can go?

Are you dissatisfied with you current laser system? Are your patients not seeing the results they want? Are you performing free treatments and losing money?

Why not try the EpiCare System the ultimate hair removal system by the inventors of Alexandrite Laser Technology. The 755nm wavelength strongly targets melanin in the hair shaft and minimally affects the surrounding tissue. The EpiCare 755 Alexandrite laser system is FDA Approved for wide variety of indications including: permanent hair reduction on all skin types (Fitzpatrick I-VI), vascular, pigmented lesions and reduction of fine lines and wrinkles

EpiCare:
Reliability
Powerful
Effective

Our Speed is your saving

www.lightage.com

04.7 | Unregistered CommenterDKW

Are you dissatisfied with you current laser system? Are your patients not seeing the results they want? Are you performing free treatments and losing money?

Why not try the EpiCare System the ultimate hair removal system by the inventors of Alexandrite Laser Technology. The 755nm wavelength strongly targets melanin in the hair shaft and minimally affects the surrounding tissue. The EpiCare 755 Alexandrite laser system is FDA Approved for wide variety of indications including: permanent hair reduction on all skin types (Fitzpatrick I-VI), vascular, pigmented lesions and reduction of fine lines and wrinkles

EpiCare:
Reliability
Powerful
Effective

Our Speed is your saving

www.lightage.com

04.7 | Unregistered CommenterDKW

Please read the question. What you replyed has nothing to do with my question.

DKW, this is not a website to pitch and sell your equipment, it's a site to gather informatioin. Moderators please remove a post like DKW's from this site.

Mighty King, good question. You said it was a used laser you were purchasing, this could be a problem. All Syneron systems purchased new come with a full three year warranty, which would replace the handpiece or system free of charge during this three year period, regardless of reason for needing replacement.

If a system is bought used, it will typically come with no warranty. All laser companies have a policy of not transfering warranties and it can be expensive to recertify equipment and purchase warranties.

600000 pulses is a high pulse count. Who knows, it could last for another 40,000 or it could break down tomorrow, it will be a roll of the dice. If you buy it used you'll have to rely on the actualy person or business you are buying from.

Best regards

AllureMD

hello AllureMD please do accept my Apology I did not mean to break your protocol for this site by posting my company information

04.23 | Unregistered Commenterdkw

DO NOT BUY THIS MACHINE. MY ENTIRE BODY WAS BURNT BY THIS MACHINE. I HAVE BROWN SKIN, MAYBE TYPE 5....MEDITERANEAN SKIN... I HAVE PERMANENT SCARS EVERYWHERE......BECAUSE OF SEVERE BURNS

I WAS ALSO BURNT BY ALEXANDRITE LASER (CANDELA)!!!! BUT ITS STILL BETTER THAN SYNERON....

ONLY YAG WORKS FOR DARKER SKIN...I HAVE SEEN MANY MANY DOCTORS...THIS IS WHAT ALL OF THEM TOLD ME. I HAVENT TRIED IT YET...I AM KIND OF TRAUMATISED BY MY BAD EXPERIENCESQ

BE CAREFULL!


05.17 | Unregistered Commentergrace

I believe that the consequences posted by the people above are all too real. Think twice before buying this... You can't just buy new skin from the drugstore.

us fidelis scam

06.8 | Unregistered Commenterazala

Sybaritics Nannolight MP50 with the 1064 yag is the 'Best" , a two in one machine ,great results , has a built in cooling system ,pain free .Treats pigmentation ,Skin Rejuvenation,Acne Clearance,Vascular lesions, and of course Hair removal.410-1400mm.

Regards

JL

10.1 | Unregistered CommenterJL

I previously used a Syneron Comet. This is an 810 nm diode with RF. The laser rep touted the RF as a way to treat any hair color, because "RF is color blind!" (sound familiar? ;) My experience with it was that it was ok for coarse, dark hair but had little effect on light hair and the RF made no difference in effectiveness. In fact, due to the risk of arcing, the higher you turn up the RF, the greater the burn from the arc. Also, it was slow, unwieldy and REALLY PAINFUL!
Recently, I had the fortune of acquiring a Palomar Starlux with Y and R handpieces. I started using them for hair removal and found improved efficacy, much faster treatment, and much less pain. The R has been great for skin types IV and V. We don't even apply anesthetic cream anymore and you don't have to use the messy gel. Meanwhile, the comet is just sitting around collecting dust.
I am personally very unimpressed with Syneron's Elos technology. I think that it presents additional risks from arcing, adds pain, and doesn't seem to add any effectiveness. The guy who goes on and on about how great and colorblind it is sounds like a company rep. Syneron appears to focus their sales efforts on non-core MD's getting into cosmetic medicine. You would ask yourself - why is that? Is it because they are newer to the field and more susceptible to manipulation by sales reps, such as the group that was promised that they could return their lasers? It seems so to me. Buyer beware.

It seems that - for the most part - the comments about the various Syneron devices posted on this blog the past two years have NOT been positive. Yet the company seems to have piles of money! The past month they have purchased both CANDELA and a small company that produces RF devices. Go figure!

Hi! I am a patient who has had Candela and Syneron lasers used for hair removal. I was by far more impressed with Syneron. It took me 5 sessions to even see a difference with Candela, and I noticed a HUGE difference after each and every session of the Syneron laser! My technician closed her business before my sessions were completed, so I'm currently searching for someone with a Syneron laser. If anyone knows someone in Arizona that uses Syneron, please email me!

04.9 | Unregistered CommenterShelby

RF does NOTHING to add to the efficacy. nothing but risk of an arc burn if they do not remain in contact

06.6 | Unregistered Commenterdavid

do you prefer the Lumenis Diode or Palomar starlux 300? i know with palomar you can do different treatments (skin rejuvenation). do you have any idea what the price is like? thank you

02.4 | Unregistered Commentershell

I have worked with Syneron for years. Hot, arcing a lot, slow results. The fine line between a burn and treatment is very hard to find. The reps must post for days and days onhere. All you need to do is ask Nurses, they see it every day. I worked with a Lumenis, just and old school one. It was faster and results better. Am i a rep? No. I am wondering if there is better than Lumenis. Now that I know how hard it is to find truth, I can say what I know from working with both. Word: Lumenis is HOT. But it works.

02.12 | Registered CommenterSavvyNurse

SavvyNurse-
Please understand the spirit of my comments- I am certainly not trying to insult or blame you for arcing or burns but I am genuinely surprised to hear of your experiences.

I've also worked with Syneron for years and have not seen the quantity of burns and arcing you are referring to. Results ARE slow for LHR but IMO excellent for Fotofacials and the other uses of the laser Skin Tightening,etc.

Burns and yes arcing do happen- but again IMO, it appears to be an operator training issue or the machines have not been serviced properly. We train our practitioners to almost OVER use the gel- and rarely have arcing issues. Burns have happened- again- usually a training issue on skin typeing and/or not doing a separate test spot on each body part to be treated.

And no, I don't work for the company, although for the amount of lasers I've bought from them, I feel like I should start asking for a kick back! (just kidding people!)

Which Syneron lasers are you currently using?

Please understand the spirit of my comments- I am certainly not trying to insult or blame you for arcing or burns but I am genuinely surprised to hear of your experiences.

With all due respect to all reading this:

Okay, I read all these posts talking up the Syneron technology, RF+Diode, and people are going on about how effective the Syneron method is in hair removal. Have any of you ever recieved this treatment, and have actually witnessed your own hair permanently go away, and stay away? Over a period of years, 5 years perhaps?

Okay, I have had five very strong Syneron RF+Diode treatments, pale skin, black hair, done by Dr. Fricke, MD at La Jolla Institute for Aestheitic Medicine. The laser, at a very high setting was completely ineffective. A complete waste of time and money. All protocols were followed, the machine was functioning as it should, all treatments spaced out chronologically for effectiveness. It did not work at all. What it did do was leave me with gross distortion of hair follicles on my abdomen. So badly distorted, that ingrowns are rampant and it is taking a couple thousand dollars at least to have this area cleared with electrology.

You people probably see me as someone that may be unclear on this whole concept of hair removal, but I assure you, this is not the case. I post on www.hairtell.com's forums under the name Mantaray. I have chronicled my whole experience. This goes from blind optimism for the Comet, to complete disillusionment at it's failure. I am not alone in this. I have turned to electrology, a science perfected since 1875, and am now enjoying true hair removal. Just rememebr, the FDA has approved many things that didn't turn out so great.

I would advise you to stay clear of RF+optical lasers. They are harsh on the skin, distort follicles, explode capillary beds, and are basically a disaster waiting to happen.

University of Iowa, College of Medicine Class of 1987
Currently an aquatic organism genetic engineer in San Diego

Thank You.

10.26 | Unregistered CommenterMantaray

Well said Mantaray. I couldn't agree more. I would only recommend Syneron for skin tightening.

I have purchased a used syneron comet with the DS+WR hand piece. I have used it for hair removal but I was told that the hand piece does wrinkles aswell. However the manual that I have does not have the settings for it. can some one help me!! thank you.

07.16 | Unregistered CommenterSylvia

The syneron aurora laser offers many capabilities. At Drs Toy Store there are plenty aurora lasers available. For some reason the PDF manual can not be found on the Internet which is odd. Go to DrsToyStore for more information as they have many other different laser brands available.

A patient here with hormonal issues. Had Candela Alex. that wrecked havoc on my face and body. I saw an increase in the density and thickness my hairs of 200%. Had a bad burn on it too. Switched to Syneron Comet. Finally I found relief. No rebounds and a good decrease on hairs (still not on hormonal treatment). The cons are that it can be really painful at underarm/bikini areas (hardly feeling a thing on most other areas). Had some superficial burns when the practisioner did not hold the head right though. I have also tried Alma Soprano ICE with the same poor results to the older Candela Alex. The Alma XL a little better on thin hair, better from Comet only on thick bikini hair.

If you buy a certain laser you have to advertise it for the advanage that it offers, and Comet is great for thin hair. I hear the same for Elaser of Syneron.

Corrections from above
*"Thin hair" as light hair
*The Candela was the Gentlelase, done from different practitioners and different (but same model) machines (it is known to cause rebound effect on facial hair)
*Alma has a quite big head, which makes it almost unsuitable for facial hair

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